Transcript: Trump Blurted Out Vile Plot to Censor ABC—and It Backfired

Sargent: So I think there’s a big question here about whether Trump is succeeding or not in cowing the news media. And there’s like a lot of fatalism out there about this. And I get that, right? You look at The Washington Post, what happened there. You look at CBS News, what’s happening there. And there’s a lot to be kind of despairing about. But I think the story is generally a decent one, though, that aside, because the American news media is just really big and sprawling, and it’s diffuse. Yeah. And it’s robust, it’s energetic. And I think I’m seeing some of the most aggressive reporting right now on Trump that I’ve seen in, I don’t know, in my lifetime. What do you think of that? What’s your sense—is he succeeding or is he not succeeding? And where do you think this particular thing is going to go?

Litman: Look, he’s succeeding in some ways. I’m sure there are some stories, right—some turns of phrase—that we are just never going to see, because organizations make the calculus that it’s not worth it. On the other hand, you’re absolutely right that the American media landscape looks very different than, let’s say, the media landscape in Hungary, where there are fewer organizations and therefore easier to control and take over.

Here there are some big media institutions, including some like ABC or The New York Times that have opted to fight back against Trump when he targets them. The New York Times successfully quashed some subpoenas that had been directed at it over its reporting about the president’s use of the Qatari Force One, you know, the jet gifted to him. And there are also a bunch of independent media organizations that have been kind of more faithful in a lot of ways to the aggressive reporting, even earlier in the administration.

So I think that the media landscape is, you know, concerning in some respects. Obviously the consolidation of several big media entities into the hands of some Trump supporters is not a good development for democracy. But it’s not maybe quite as dire as people might think, at least if you are conscientious enough to ensure you are getting a media diet that includes a lot of independent media and media that hasn’t been taken over by Trump allies.